Shouting down people and then shutting them up is the perfect Leftist social media paradigm. Maybe it’s time for some self examination. And I’m so glad this topic has been raised!! Y’see, I’m what I call a “triple-threat” conservative … I’m a political, fiscal and social conservative. We as a collective have been called bigots, racists (even by the admin who stated that since a scarf reference about B.O. Makes me sad. I am saddened by the hate and non inclusive behavior of Revelry. Thanks for the update on Lion Brand Wool-Ease. As you can probably imagine- self preservation would deem that I stay in my bunker and let those people talk among themselves. So you know what it feels like to feel different, to be afraid. Thank you Gregory for your thoughtful post; I have been struggling with the decision to leave Raverly, its hard because the knowledge base is helpful to a mediocre knitter like me. I hadn’t been on Ravelry for a while, but saw that many were leaving and looked up why. In my life I am trying to love everyone as much as possible. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. “For those of you who have asked about donating to Ravelry: please support us by supporting Ravelry designers, dyers, advertisers, and shops, particularly those run by people who are black, indigenous, people of color, members of the LGBTQ+ community, disabled crafters, those who belong to otherwise marginalized communities, and those who are speaking out on justice and equality issues to effect change.”. Ravelry’s announcement on Sunday, June 23rd came as a surprise to many users and followers. Thank you for capturing what I’ve been thinking all week. But it’s not only the titans, it’s every single white collar worker whom the titans employ. That was the absolute BEST satire on a woke liberal I’ve ever seen! "Ravelry, a social network for knitters with 8 million members, banned users from showing support for Donald Trump on the platform". Hope another site pops up that just focuses on the craft where everyone is welcome. Amen! Our new group (which later became The Bunker) was devoted to supporters of John McCain in his (failed) bid for the presidency. I think the best way to impact them is to contact their advertisers and enlist support of others to stop purchasing patterns. Knitting and other crafts allow me to get away from politics and things that drive us apart as human beings sharing this world. EJ, MDF, AllyKatt and the others instituted the best possibly policy in dealing with trolls … the theory is, if someone comes into your living room and (pardon me) craps in the middle of the floor, you don’t just leave it there to stink up the place … you clean it up and move on. I have been SHOCKED at people who state openly on IG that only their specific group woes and concerns matter. Is it arrogance that they thought so many of their ‘customers’ would just roll over and capitulate to them? Fine. I didn’t ever think about any of those issues with fellow knitters. I think thats the point, Rav owners stated (in their written statement) “Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy.” They broad bush painted /ACCUSED others of being “white supremacists” If they didn’t want politics, they should have banned hate speech against trump, F*ck Trumps patterns, as well as banning any political patterns/comments supporting ANY political point of view or candidate. There have been a couple of Presidents who outright purged their Cabinets. Thank you for speaking up for the smaller voices. as easy as one would imagine. Trump bashing and hating all who supported him was OK! Ravelry is a free social networking service and website that beta-launched in May 2007. Your well written post gives me hope that someday maybe America will knit again. ... Deadliest Catch has been on the air for more than 14 seasons now and the audience still comes back each year for more drama! . Ladies I want in this group. I agree with you wholeheartedly Gregory! It’s not difficult to do because we share a love for the craft. There seems to be no end to the utter stupidity of the political anti-Trump or anti-Clinton, or anti-fill-in-the-blank. We cannot seem to support an LYS here in Louisville.. Three have gone under in the last 6-7 years. I married a liberal 34 years ago, met my liberal best friend nearly 30 years ago. And not meaning only the ones that go against the new policy; did they think beyond their proclamation and consider while Ravelry losses members how it will impact those that sell through the website? To be clear, Ravelry called Trump supporters ‘White Supremacists’. But just two days after the service announced its $9.95 deal â¦ I work for a non profit healthcare center that cares for impoverished immigrants. Thank you for trying to bring us all back together. Am I reading that correctly? Politicians will come and go, all we really have in life is each other. Let me just say. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Maybe you would have an idea where to start. What The Bunker’s members discovered in 2009 was that they were also poor winners. If you’re going to ban anything, ban EVERYTHING political. Now it’s become ‘unfollow me. Where adults will be encouraged to be loving, kind, and mature Adults! I mulled it over for about a week, then downloaded my patterns and deleted my account. Support of the Trump administration is unambiguously support for white supremacy.” What more is there to understand or read? Ravelry (if you look at it from a political point of view) is very much left of center. I don’t care what anyone’s politics are, I just want to turn pea-green with envy over everyone’s knitting skills. Please keep the truth going and help change other views that we are not evil people. website for knitters (and other fiber art related people) .. that has a no-violence Parenting took away my time to socialize on the internet and, eventually, any spare energy I might have had for knitting. But to say he hates any one group of people is ridiculous. “We are banning support of Donald Trump and his administration on Ravelry. Yes, that happened during all of this. McCain’s decision to put Sarah Palin on the ticket energized the group but, within the group, as within America’s larger body politic, brought out the crazed haters. I will miss being able to search through so many patterns to find my next challenge and project. That’s fine and dandy if they are going to ban trump hate as well… but they did not. . Your email address will not be published. I actually didn’t even vote for Trump, but I’m one of those crazy people who support the office whether my preferred candidate made it there or not. I however sent them a letter questioning their new rule. Beliefs…long live Ravelry. Support of the Trump administration is unambiguously support for white supremacy.”, I just slowly shook my head and looked over at my yarn and thought, “Oh, you poor skeins….you were not spun to be weapons.”. If not there is always the block button. But now the highest-level positions of his Cabinet â¦ In 2008 and 2009, social media sites were beginning to crack down on conservative voices. We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Would have been simpler, especially seeing all the hate speech on twitter now, Brexit seems like a walk in the park now lol. I have found this site…people who left Ravelry and want just a crafting/non-political site. Look at this idiot trying to promote her book now.. She told Anderson Cooper rape is sexy and for her it was only 3 minutes.. Somebody please explain to me! Donald Trump is not a white supremacist! I knew something big was happening at Ravelry when all Pro-Trump patterns disappeared and when I asked about it on the Ravelry Help forum I was told my question was political. Love your bears. It makes me so sad to know that people feel excluded in the name of inclusivity. I . I wanna big fat “JOIN” button somewhere, anywhere right at the beginning. My beliefs , political, religious, are my own. My heart broke a little that day, and I’m still looking for that place where we come together to knit, just because we knit. in a perfect world it would happen. I have better things to do so I deleted my account and hope Ravelry goes down the tubes. This research she has done is kind of an eye opener. But Ravelry has gone too far. Would love to be a part of it! I deleted my account as well. It’s not about bridging gaps or bringing people together. To me they are racists and gender biased by just putting so much emphasis on it. The people who can’t seem to find anything wrong with this policy are the ones that it isn’t affecting. Trolls don’t like this. It did so by openly and boldly announcing that all references on the site that in any way support Trump will henceforth be banned because (and I quote): “Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy.”. Oh, too funny. I haven’t deleted my account yet (although I intend to!) Very well put. FYI – The Trump ban was as a result of one of the pattern makers spying on and attacking another member who reported a pattern that violated TOS. But, at least with all our differences, we have at least THAT we can build from, that we can use to communicate to each other with, learn from each other. Yesterday, Ravelry, one of the largest fiber arts social media sites, with a member roster 8,000,000 strong, made the equivalent of a loud, rude farting sound in the conservative blogosphere. I mean, really. They just said that it is a crafting site, not a political site, and they didn’t want politics discussed on the site. Again thank you for being you. exactly! I won't bother to look for any crocheting projects there anymore. They are special snowflakes and mustn’t be ignored when they so much with which toÂ Â enlighten and educate you. There is no sense anymore. I’m a liberal latinx and I unsubscribed for those very reasons—I won’t lend my support to any group that bans those with which they disagree, use hateful and divisive language—and the sad, transparent attempt to make their actions appear virtuous, only confirms the fascist thinking behind this silly position. However, if the owners of the website wanted to use that as their platform, I figured it’s their site to do with as they please so I just ignored it. But, I will respond. Well said. We cannot silently stand by while people spread their hate no matter what platform they choose to use, be it Ravelry, FB, or any other platform without speaking up. Some react with anger, others with sorrow. It WAS a wonderful place for while. Has anyone here received an invitation to Ravelry? I am afraid that this will bring negativity to the table for us, and a fear of finding other avenues and ways of insulting people. 1) Go to your "about me" page. I’m old! https://help.loveknitting.com/hc/en-gb/categories/360000136508-Using-the-Website-LoveCraft-Apps. Maple Grove, MN. I became pregnant and on April 14th I drove myself to the hospital hemorrhaging from a miscarriage. https://www.gofundme.com/f/fiberocity-online-fiber-community-project?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_dn_postdonate_r. If I only spent time with people who agreed with me on everything it would be a lonely (and quite uninteresting) world. They’ve gone welcome to all who believe only what I do, which I find deplorable. I think here is what gets lost with that opinion. It’s in it’s early stages but worth checking out. And I, for one, find that a very poisonous thing to do to a community. Ravelry is an emotionally bankrupt business, petty, mean and small minded. I don’t care if they are male, female, or undecided. It’s very true. Yesterday I made the decision to delete my account also. Your post made my heart sing. Also, Trump related patterns aren’t all they removed. There are patterns there I’m waiting to download! There are enough political forums in the internet without it infecting the crafting world. I may not approve of Trump, but I have friends who do support him, and they are NOT white supremacists. None of those women who have come forward to accuse him of attacking them has ever been proven true. Thank you. We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Ravelry isn’t trying to make people feel safe, it’s making them question how safe their neighborhood is. Thank you! I am a hard core liberal. This division between us is growing at a rapid rate and instead of helping to reign it in, pull it back, and find a way to get us BACK to the table, Ravelry decided that keeping us separate worked better for them as a company. I just know that silencing some for how they cast a ballot is not the America I know and love. The Church of Scientology has often asserted that it has approximately ten million members worldwide. But we all did so with the utmost respect for each other and not one person ever left angry or hurt. So I will stay.. but I have friends who are computer I just wanted to thank you for your Honest writings, here. But, yes.. Knitting is supposed to be calming.. Ravelry was Here’s the statement I found on the main page of Ravlery’s website on Sunday, June 23, 2019: “New policy, effective immediately We are banning support of Donald Trump and his administration on Ravelry. I’ve been a member for years. But you can’t have it both ways, and have it be respectful to the wide diversity of membership on Ravelry. I suppose that passed their notice. I’m admittedly still not always exactly…. I don’t mix politics with my knitting and I pray for all men and women on this earth. How is that NO politics? I go with that I’ll treat everyone with dignity and respect, as long as I get the same from them. Figure the “member” button was for only members. In some sense, they’ve removed anyone’s ability to counter the narrative of white supremacy. Brings up interesting questions about Intellectual Property Rights. I missed it for a while and I was hurt they took that tack. “Resistance is futile,” they seem to think. They are practicing bigotry. Ravelryâs old logo, complete with Pride flag to show their history of inclusion. I look forward to a new knitting place to hangout online. Ravelry, an online knitting community with over 8 million members, has banned support of President Donald Trump and his administration. I agree 100%. Why is a Fuck Trump pattern allowed on Ravelry but not a God is Love pattern that was banned? I have a lot of disposable income. Much love ~C.~. So….any advice on where I can go elsewhere to browse patterns? Thank you. or political hate speech. Hi Gregory. It was a breathtakingly self destructive thing to do to their business if so…. Zero. I’m not helpless. We need to have places that avoid this GroupThink behavior and I hope the Ravelry leadership will do the right thing and back down. I think there is an opportunity here….. Hi Courtney! Yarn and patterns, too. Follow their code on GitHub. Ravelry, which says it has eight million members, was shut down to new users on Monday, and the siteâs leadership did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Today’s tech titans were all good students who ended up at good universities — places such as Harvard and Yale, where the Leftist infection runs deep and strong. When a business owner decides to use their business as their political platform and I’m a customer, that’s when I’m done. Why on God’s green earth would politics EVER be brought into our craft. Right. I can’t be on another site that promotes segregation and negativity, we get enough of that everywhere else. However, I will be leaving a comment about their decision on their site. but I thought we were past the point of banning folk, or accusing folk. Every single dollar helps! Because we cared. They’ve stated that our rights to free speech don’t apply to a private company like Ravelry. What does not is blind activism for activism’s sake. Your kidding right? Thank you for being a shining light in the crafting community and expressing your opinions and beliefs regardless of the people trying to quiet you and anyone else that’s not part of their collective. All of the sudden I’m a supporter of white supremecists and hate! This is a reality that millions are facing. Nothing compares to physically having all of your loved ones by your side on your wedding day. Their offices. Yet, I don’t go making a big hoo ha about my country’s politics on a platform that is supposed to be a place for crafters. My knitting life will go on just as enjoyably after ravelry. It is like a gut punch reading your comments. I’ve knitted primarily for a decade. I get the last laugh though. I quoted their own mission statement when I quit revelry. I find it impossible! I am not in control of anyone’s lifestyle choices except my own. Ravelry chose to divide and destroy a fun site. If you can not see the difference…ask yourself why. I know that pain too. I’ve spent a lot of time on Ravelry and in the fiber community, and have felt the push that I’m not permitted to think what I think if it doesn’t coincide with what others think. I didn’t end up deleting my account. I will add that link in a comment to this. People are like puppy dogs wanting to be loved and taken care of. Different strokes, different folks. On the other hand, I can see how they are trying to protect their followers globally that are being tossed around. Donald Trump's administration has seen a revolving door of Cabinet members in its first 2 1/2 years. You think you’re welcome to eat with me? We love our country and want what’s best too. I love seeing my granddaughter in a handmade item. They don’t even know me and apparently they don’t even want to get to know me. His obvious disdain for people less fortunate is sickening. I may just give up this creative outlet once my stash is gone. Ravelry, a private site created in 2007, has transformed from a niche discussion board to a digital marketplace where users can sell their wares and swap patterns in a global community. We did, however, allow our members to equate BHO with a socialist, as his own words and actions had confirmed this to us. Through knitting we should be hoping to build alliances with our alleged enemies through the majesty of our shared craft. today, vrc lost a family member I can't quite remember exactly how many years ago it was, but I do remember the day when my older daughter, Tania told me there was a guy out front who wanted a job. I totally understand and back their need to protect all from sources of hate, which were brought on by some against the LGBT community, because it would eventually filter out to the religious communities and others. Many, many (most?) What does knitting have to do with politics? was made by a person from Mississippi it was a racist remark), intolerant, homophobic, etc etc etc.Â Any word you can think of (and you can even dig down into a dirty ditch and youâd probably pick up a name our group has been called) as derogatory. Lol get it knit & Patrick. And I really don’t want to be a part of that attempt to continue to divide people on every level possible. I knit knowing that this old craft should be So glad to have found your site. They’ve made it completely forbidden to express the opinion that Trump supporters are *not* all of those lies people tell. I actually felt pretty terrible for her. http://unraveled.net/phpbb/. People will lie for money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2WRSepMM3s&app=desktop, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/opinion/enterthefray/la-ol-ravelry-trump-white-supremacy-20190625-story.html%3foutputType=amp, “Everyone uses Ravelry”: why a popular knitting website’s anti-Trump stance is so significant, https://help.loveknitting.com/hc/en-gb/categories/360000136508-Using-the-Website-LoveCraft-Apps, Bigotry Is Not Ok (or Ravelry Is at It Again) - Dreaming If. They will not tolerate hate speech and will delete them immediately. Some of us choose not to support a site that that will allow anti-Trump support but not pro-Trump support. I live in the rural south. In EllieJane’s McCain group, we started getting other people joining … some who’d been dissatisfied with the Conservative Knitters, some who enjoyed the GOP Knitters but were also looking for a more active group to play in. I’d gladly attend. Thank you. Well said Annie.I have also left my Ravelry account for the same reasons. active on Ravelry.. it’s hard for me to make friends in real life even online.. A "no hate" platform has become quite a divided space and ridiculous. Sadly I have been proved wrong. My decision to leave Ravelry was not politically motivated. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! We do our venting there to keep politics off the fiber sites.. All are welcome! I’m a conservative straight dude that plays board games at a gay bar. And that gets me to Ravelry’s first foray into censorship, back in 2009, shortly after Obama was inaugurated. No, YOU’RE dividing us. Instead of dragging down a book, within seconds at my computer I can summon up videos or information pages (or patterns, free or otherwise) that far exceed the contents of those now out-dated books. Perfectly written! Finding inspiration and patterns for our creativity and even help and guidance with patterns. They didn’t want to hear it. Ravelry never said that only some people belong here. The vast majority of conservatives are not hateful and do not support (insert labels of the day). They should have kept all politics off the platform and stuck to their core mission……fiber arts. Excellent post. To try to influence them is an extreme exercise in futility. Some people are just too sensitive. At least Greg’s words give me momentary solace and have reassured me there are at least a few reasonable people left in the knitting world. I support Ravelry in their decision. They didn’t say “We don’t want politics being discussed” or the like. (Again, just dumping all knitting, yarn and pattern IG pages. I feel the same exact way…well, almost…I am a woman, straight but conservative and a lover of yarn…i won’t even look down my nose at you because you knit instead of crochet LOL…But, if we cant sit and Knit (or crochet) and be civil why walk the face of the Earth to begin with. There is a new site coming to give Ravelry some competition: They will offer the same amenities as Ravelry but with upgraded new technology. There are a lot of people that feel the same way, but you’ll find your crowd! Of course one loss is more than enoughâ¦itâs already too much. Neither theory has basis in Ravelry's own narrative, though, as in their announcement, the site’s admins pointed towards a similar decision by roleplaying game hub … But Ravelry has just put itself at the very top of my [expletive] list. I’ll try again, but let me know if it’s broken for some reason. And one of my favorite yarn stores in StevenBe in Minneapolis, run by the Glitter Knitter Steven Berg, who may be one of the most flamboyant gay men I’ve ever met. That’s how you end up with this: The first Obama election was a trial run; the second election was a proven formula; the Trump election was (for these indoctrinated tech types) a system failure; and they’re now doing their trial runs again. Has anyone else looked at Mimi Dee’s youtube link? Thank you for sharing. Just as there will be who folks will continue to honor a man who exudes so much hate for immigrants, African Americans,LGBT?, women, (especially the kind who aren’t his type) there will also be folks will who want a place to express dislike for the man. I downloaded 115 purchased patterns and deleted my acct. I deleted my account because of the treasonistic thoughts. Ravelry member and attorney Harmeet Dhillon, California’s Republican National Committee committeewoman, is an immigrant, a woman of color, and a Trump … We have to make our choices for ourselves, I am here and love you all ❤ regardless of which side, whose 'right' or barriers to communication. Don’t believe me? He is the first real estate developer to assign a massive project to a black woman manager ever. Thank you! It’s all water under the bridge now, but I would love to live to be old enough to see Obama’s transcripts released to prove or disprove my theory.). articulated most beautifully. It began when the SJWs flagged the group’s name — “The Bunker,” which means a safe place to hunker down — as a pro-Nazi name. The reaction that Ravelry took is what is dividing this country, rather than bringing us together to have the necessary difficult conversations we need to be having. They have the resources to police the political beliefs of members, but no resources to vet patterns that might be copies of someone else’s work, even when designers make complaints about copyright issues. That’s family! Why can’t people just let others be, agree to disagree, and live and let live. This is exactly how I feel! We were not, however, politically correct. They are trying to be a space that is exclusionary. 7% of their case load still involves locating people lost during World War II. Again thank you, It’s quite obvious. URL has been removed. Thank you for being you!! Yes they did ban people. I got hit with so many hateful comments INSTANTLY that without five minutes I deleted my comment. How about Knitricks ? Geronimo Jackson has been referenced in six episodes of Lost as well as in The Lost Experience. But I do have patterns in my library and comments. He was my anchor when my brother died. I am a South African. For the life of me I will never understand actions like this. I look forward to finding out more about the fiberocity site. I can’t wait to see a better platform eliminating division. Oh, shit….I didn’t know I had done a Star Wars reference! Ravelry has become a place for hate where personal attacks on people is common place. You have stated it clearly. I used to go there to find inspiration, but now it’s sort of a gulag where the wrong opinions can get you attacked. We can still knit and share patterns and ideas but just because one has a different skin color shouldn’t be abused. Today’s Ravelry story, which goes back to the 2008 election, is especially interesting given that today is the day that Project Veritas revealed Google’s plan to prevent Trump’s reelection. Quite right. Ravelry seems to be using tactics championed by Antifa, a group which promotes Communism and Anarchy. I felt that there was no reason for the WAY it was written and using Trump and his administration as a scapegoat goat as well. Voters are also less informed. I doubt I will attend another sheep and wool festival. Ravelry has always been a very lefty place, where all the cool kids posted their p-ssy hat patterns. Ravelry has 10 repositories available. It was so well written that I wanted to remind people how vile this type hatred is & how deeply it affects all of us on every level. Be polite, do not allow your anger or upset to color what you write to them. Go make new friends, find new faces and places where you can enjoy yourself. God Bless you! I’ve switched to much less expensive, and still gorgeous reproducable yarns. . Ran across your blog while looking for the way to delete my Ravelry account for the very same reasons you so eloquently expressed. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Because I tried to leave a tip last night and it wouldn’t connect to PayPal. I could not agree more! You go Gregory!!! The particular group of women I am talking about are what I would classify as âbad winnersâ (the word âtrollâ would also be an appropriate adjective. There are several new sites.. Fiberocity is one.. Our Unraveled is another. The new site fiberocity.com is up and running.. You said it yourself, politics has no place in knitting. But when they pretty much accused any Tump supporter of being white supremacist, I felt instantly jolted. What the hell is this country coming to? It’s unnecessary and really quite stupid!! And Conservatives are welcomed with open arms. When owners of the largest watering hole for knitters now say to millions of knitters that because you do not agree with our politics..that you are not welcome. As you can guess, many of the actors we sew for are gay and we know each other’s beliefs. And there has not been a single morning in my entire life that I have thought I am good because of my skin, although I *have* lived every day thinking I’m good, I’ll not deny that. But by honoring deceased relatives and friends in a way that feels true to your relationship, it allows those people to be there in spirit. — and they are people from top to bottom with college grads. Why do you think people who agree with Ravelry aren’t thinking for themselves? “You *will* be assimilated, whether you agree with us or not, so just give in already!”, While the conservative group members, as a matter of stated policy, refrained from obscenities, personal attacks, etc., they did challenge Barack Obama’s politics and his peculiar reluctance to prove his American birth to silence the doubters. Perfectly said. I can’t stand them even more if this is true. I began praying again, in earnest, for the removal of pure evil from this world. I have sent her a message inquiring where else I could find her patterns because I am soon leaving rav over their new policy/political statement. I wonder how designers feel about this policy? Thank you for this. Asking members of Ravelry to turn in other members for possible wrong-think is ... Why can’t people just let others be, agree to disagree, and live and let live. Companies need to maybe not jump into the fray all the time. I went to the polls kicking and screaming. Politics has no business on a Knitting Website. I’m sure that I will be banned simply because I was a member of one Conservative Group there. Where, exactly do you get this notion that the president hates anyone? I dare you’ and ‘your different opinion will be removed’. Email address has been removed. While the label might run true for some of them, it does not for all. Not something I care to be a part of. As long as you respect me and treat me good I will do the same with you. I’ve been asking that same question over and over again. That is what political sites and open forums are for. One woman said the # should be I support them not stand with them because of the people who can’t stand up. I cannot remain in a group that in my opionion is using hate speach about a large portion of it’s members. What I do judge people on is their content of character. And we can be like sheep and be silent, or we can push back at this injustice and poison to the fiber community. But they had to jump on the bandwagon with the liberal bullies. Labeling anyone that is disagreed with as racist is beyond unconscionable. May your intarsia be flexible and lie flat. Today we have about 1,500 active advertisers - most are active Ravelry members and many are very small businesses. Love the whole thing, but especially the next to the last paragraph, “I can’t in good conscience……”. Once one group is gone, they will find a new group to attack. I mean, it’s just knitting for gosh’s sakes! Started in 1996! Then they go off on a prejudiced tantrum of their collective imaginations. I always said I could service on a deserted island with a couple of Elizabeth Zimmerman books and some yarn. My first reaction to the new policy was sadness. If you attack me, I’ll delete your comments. I was a R member since 2007, so needless to say, I had a ton of content saved there. Your email address will not be published. Keep up the good fight. When I first started facilitating bereavement groups, I sort of assumed that people would be coming for help for âjustâ one loss. I know, I know. There is currently a FB page titled ‘Walk Away from Ravelry’ where many of us have congregated. I agree that their “company is not about knitting anymore.” So I join my voice with you and all the commenters here that have written exactly what I am feeling. You have to do that one at a time, and it’s a tedious process. The problem is that people who objected to the “F” Trump patterns were also demonized. Thank you thank you. I’m tired of people hating each other. In the 22 years since I last put my knitting needles down, I’ve learned that the internet has become a superb knitting resource in ways I never could have imaged back in 1993 or 1994. They sure didn’t think that all the way through.. Not necessarily ignorance. Labeling, stereotyping, name-calling and silencing does not promote positive change. ... Arizona man has lost 5 family members â¦ So sad we have to feel unwelcome on a site that claims to be “all inclusive” and shoves a ton of people into one slot to be hated. This is about patterns, not forcing your personal agendas or feelings….at the end of the day, it is Ravelry’s decision. She also became the second Moderator pretty quickly, and was such a help to EllieJane that I can’t even describe it. Thank you for putting into words what many of us feel. I have struggled with my thoughts and feelings over their new policy since Sunday. Honestly, if you can’t see the hate emanating from the highest office in this land you simply aren’t paying attention. I use Ravelry to catalog my family through items made with love. It actually took my breath away, to be honest. It’s slander. They aren’t breaking any laws, but they are breaking their own code of supposedly being “tolerant” and “free-minded.”. I guess as long as you agree with them its considered acceptable only. I also handcraft for relaxation, family, and charity; not for activism, but it would be heart breaking to give it up just because the ones who yell the loudest are on the opposite side of us politically! Be careful. Only Trump supporters are told to stay in the closet…do you agree with Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. It’s time someone else started a group for what Ravelry was SUPPOSED to be meant for – a place to share and/or sell all aspects of the “yarn arts”. I want to be in a community with other knitters. Ravelry isn’t a safe space. . I avoid Ravelry when possible but it would be nice to have a new site to use in it’s place as it’s wonderful exchanging Knitting ideas and promoting your patterns and or yarn’s. I have never posted political stuff on ravelry and in my knitting group I don’t agree alot with others politics but I respect their positions and am friends because of what we have in common. I just knew that that Ravelry had made it perfectly clear that no bridges would be built on their platform. Who thinks or even cares about the pattern creator and other knitters. The haters can’t beat us!! 3 months ago i participated in a conversation and ended up getting banned from speaking for 3 months. Its best to keep patterns of him or any talk about him off the site to keep the peace. It really helps to know there are other non-militant people during times like these when it can be risky to even speak up if you have a different idea than someone else-even if you share concern for the same problem. Damn all others. Just because you have a different political view, it doesn’t mean we can’t communicate. If you want to keep politics out of it, then do so, but don’t be a HYPOCRITE! Otherwise it will be like, but not like, Ravelry. I’m wondering why politics found their way into knitting anyway. Just for hanging out with the wrong crowd. I urge you to go look at what anti-Ravelry people are doing now, a week on. “LSG”) … their parents must be ever so proud. Do you have any information about that since you mentioned 50%. I feel the same way that you do – and hoped it could be a place to come together. How dare these people state that as fact when it is not! It just makes me sad. I’m going to look on the bright side. Their site is free to users, and vendors can take their business elsewhere if they wish. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/opinion/enterthefray/la-ol-ravelry-trump-white-supremacy-20190625-story.html%3foutputType=amp. I think this is fair and I think that it keeps people connecting about knitting and fiber arts and not politics, that isn’t what their site it for. Apparently, I’ve had my head stuck in the sand. I don’t get it. We are over 50, different political and religious views, and not once has anyone ever said a cross word to another. Gregory–THANK YOU– you put into words much more eloquently than I ever could. Beautiful post. According to one of the comments on Deborah Makarios’ blog, people are being banned from Ravelry just for discussing the new policy on other websites. This isn’t banning all political speech, it’s bigotry against conservatives. The divisiveness, finger pointing and intolerance is seeping into everything, I so wish knitting, yarn, needles and patterns could help fix it. Originally I was going to ignore this because the ban doesn’t affect me, as I’ve never expressed anything political online nor wanted to make a MAGA tea cozy. I agree with you about the policy. Ravelry is NOT trying to be a place that is safe for everyone. A hurl of insults will come flying at you because obviously you disagree with their new policy because you’re a (fill in any derogatory slur you can think of). The hat pattern which said ‘in God we trust’ was removed…or maybe it was ‘God is love’. I have shared this so others can learn from you. I’ve gone to Loveknitting, who sells me yarn when I want it and doesn’t bother with forums at all. They are really enjoying this moment. This is the part of the problem here. I just deleted my account as well. Discussion in 'The Women's Room' started by MollieA, Sep 1, 2011. Because that is what happened. For me, the thought of sharing space with anyone who supports this vulgar, hateful man is repulsive and offensive. An absolute joke and contradiction of who they profess to be! I bit my tongue about it. As long as you treat others with dignity and obey the laws of our country I don’t care if you are fat, skinny, a woman, a man or can’t decide. Nevertheless, Ravelry supported political groups in which people could mix crafting and politics.Â The point of these groups was that people could replicate an actual physical space in which they could get together with like-minded friends and, while crafting, also talk about politics in a way that allowed for respectful (and even snarky) debate but avoided ugly personal attacks. I don’t want my knitting site to get political. I am reading that you are saying Ravelry is justified in repudiating all Trump supporters as ‘unambigously white supremacists” but that’s okay in your book because a tiny fraction of their members stupidly doxed people who espouse liberal views. I have deleted my account as well and shared your post to Facebook. I don’t need them and, clearly, because of a vote in a single election, they don’t want me. EXACTLY! I, for one, really appreciate it. I love that! How can we reorganize and get a real meetup/group for people that are okay with people no matter their beliefs/politics. And in between read a few new blogs and get to know other knitters out there. That is why I simply had to have you tell me what is precisely objectionable. I could see it coming when they started putting so much emphasis on race and gender. I agree. but sadly, it’s not There’s also real pleasure in showing off a finished project to an audience that truly appreciates the effort that went into it. I downloaded my 115 purchased patterns and deleted my account. I’m still on the fence about deleting my account but am seriously considering it and looking for alternatives. Indeed, the better the student, the more they’ve absorbed the indoctrination. Remember the ‘Nazi’s came for the gypsies & it didn’t affect me, they came for the homosexual, & it didn’t affect me so I said nothing…..then they came for me & there was no one left to help me…. I’m not trying to be contentious…I’m truly trying to understand that characterization, because I’ve met a lot of people who say they voted for Trump, and so far I wouldn’t say any of them are “scum.”. I feel Ravelry is completely missing the plot on this. Many of you will recognize the name Ravelry, and you should. Oh nice I’ll check out that FB group for sure!! I obviously don’t have your talent for words, so thank you again. I came across your blog because I was looking for a “I deleted Ravelry” pic to use for my Instagram feed, read your post and all I can say is “AMEN”!!!! I was a proud member of the NRA. Sorry, not buying it. It’s a real shame they let their vitriol cause such a division. People are divided by many things, not just political or sexual reasons. Long Lost Family Bulletin Board. Well made points. First project could be knitting white robes with pointy hats. More importantly what boundary issues preclude individuals from keeping their political opinions to share on the multitude of sites dedicated to that sharing. That’s how we fight back. Which was it? It is a work in progress, but a great place so far. What’s even more insidious, on one group I think someone was pretending to be pro Trump and making vulgar ridiculous comments to further inflame the group. You would think that they would have left us alone since their candidate won. I just love you and Patrick to pieces. The whole point of the creative arts, such as knitting, is to engage in an activity that is de stressing and creates something beautiful. But I guess as a conservative, Christian, Canadian woman, they didn’t want me anyway. The only request is that conversation is kept kind and civil. There are jerks on both sides. As a kid, I compared my NRA membership to being a Boy â¦ I don’t care if you are Mormon, Catholic, Jewish or Hindu. So what is the right supposed to do in that scenario.. just keep hearing it and not saying anything about it? I like to go there to find… Because of some of the vile and offensive pictures that showed up on ravatars [i.e., Ravelry avatars]Â (boob fondling, crotch shots, nekkid parts … and this on a site where someone’s children might walk up behind them at any moment, not to mention the minor-age members, and see this stuff — not a family friendly site … oh and the language on some of the boards would make sailors and truck drivers embarrassed!… but I digress)Â the site owner *finally* gave the users tools to hide offensive ravatars, including simple hiding of the picture or a “green” cover with which you could replace the ravatar of those with whom you disagree (which we gave the term “disagreening”). ourunraveled.com A couple of my friends are talking about trying to set up a site where truly all people are welcome. I come to these sites for ideas as I knit and crochet for those that struggle ($),cancer patients, new born miracles (babies) homeless. Basically, conservatives are sitting ducks who can’t make a sound when they are attacked. It was the only conservative group on ravelry that was really vibrant and popular. You have stated why, I too, deleted my Ravelry account. So for you l, hateful=any Trump? And that is why I deleted my Ravelry account. You want us to listen to you but you don’t offer the same courtesy. Thank you. Keeping ALL politics off would have been a smarter choice, and they could have been diplomatic about. This was a very stupid and classless move on their part and has done nothing to help their business. It’s about sharing a love for our craft, not drawing boundaries. Thank you. Now I’m labeled something ugly for agreeing. Too much negativity- as so many others have said, knitting/crocheting used to be something that brought us all together. Can I say, too. We did allow our members to be sassy, sarcastic, and lean toward “snark” … I’m sorry, but polite drawing room conversations concerning “the weather and everyone’s health” (c’mon, what movie is that from?) I’m a black female knitting Trump supporter and I am not a white supremacist. Moviepass ended 2016 with around 20,000 subscribers, when you had to pay $14.95 for the cheapest package. Everyone should be allowed to support their US President, no matter who is in office! I care for ALL of our fellow men. My letter fell on deaf ears as I expected it would. I was upset they would call me, a Southern, Christian woman who supports Trump, a racist. None of that matters. 3. All my positive sentiments towards Ravelry have been shattered. Well said, Cheri. It is a favorite of mine when knitting hats for charity. I have so much in my pattern library, and I feel so stuck. The admins vow to make it fair. But at least Grandma could post her Trump2020 dishcloth. No one cares that you deleted your account, and Ravelry is a better place without the likes of you. I have SO many cute photos of my babies in booties, Grandma in mitts, step Dad in hat, etc. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that behind this ban, was hypocrisy and bigotry. Any members of Ravelry? Bwahahaha. Be calm and Knit On!! Colleges and universities were major targets. I guess this is what happens when small minded people run a social site. I had an email from one of the Russian knitters I had purchased a stunning pattern from who asked me what kind of idiots were in charge at Ravelty. I’m proud of you. I have seen a few blogs/vlogs from various designers who have stated they are in the process of removing their patterns due to the new policy. I have been an active member since November 2007. What they said was that anti-trump members could say all kinds of awful things, but labeled anyone who even supported the presidency, as flawed as it might be, a white supremest. Not all of us got to knitting from the same place, but we’re all here now, and we should be more anxious than ever to hear from someone so different from us through the language we share of our needles clicking and clacking together to create something of comfort. It’s worked out with both, because, as you say, it is necessary to come to the table to reach understanding. Long story short, I would have been ok with their announcement had Ravelry NOT labeled a group of people whom they don’t like or agree with as white supremacists. This is the LAST time.) I’m in a few groups and I follow a few fiber craft pages on Facebook. However, as with any internet forum, use basic caution and common sense! They no longer had access to their own information about projects or tools. No administration lasts forever, but I fear the ability to have civil discourse is lost forever. I no longer buy yarn from manipulative and entirely unkind indie dyers. There are appropriate venues for that, but Ravelry isn’t where I’d expect to go for that discussion. Nobody left for just one guy, they left because of the bigotry policy. No evidence of the alleged doxing incident leading to the new Ravelry policy has ever been provided. I cheer on the RBG on AOC dolls and patterns because “creativity!” but gods help me if I were to design something supporting Trump, or conservatives. But, I didn’t come to this community to be any of those things. Thank you for being honest. By that evening I was Ravelry free. Well, you would think I would write that the trolling got so bad Ravelry told those sore winners to go elsewhere, either to another group within Ravelry or to another fiber arts site altogether. Why should we keep a knitting site…gasp.. about knitting. Thank you for sharing your view. I would start one if I knew how. Could be anywhere….As I just wrote in my recent post, just ask, “May I sit here, with you?” And you’ll learn quickly who wants you there and who doesn’t. Not my business, just an observer but I read the announcement (lots of people are talking about it) and you’re welcome to your pro-Trump opinions just as long as you never even *breathe* them to anyone. While I fully support Ravelry and their bold decision to create a truly safe place by implementing this policy, I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your perspective. For generations, these institutions of higher indoctrination have been churning out students who believe in Leftist ideas. Use our bulletin board to search for lost relatives and missing people by name or keyword and check to see if someone is looking for you by posting a query.Then take a look at our list of web resources for clues to help you in your search and add sites you've personally found useful. Val – I hope you will give this some thought. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Thank you for expressing MY feelings exactly. I don’t agree with everything our president does, nor have I agreed with all the actions of past preaidents. Ravelry’s “evidence” ties back to an RPG site that bases their white supremacist verdict on the President’s statement in a speech that he is a nationalist. The truth is that there are a small percentage of very loud, angry people who wake up every morning looking for outrage. Actually, I find it amusing that people who claim to be so inclusive are so bigoted. That was ugly, but it got worse at the end of February. Why didn’t they just do that? Thank you for being a voice of reason!!!!! With Warmest Regards, I was about to but thought My donate button is a “tip jar” for people who appreciate my writing, this blog, and would like to see it continue. And why does everything have to be politicized? Or judged. Liberal bullies stooping to liberal name calling tactics. It’s not about conservatism at all, it is about a single man – I’m not going away just for one lousy guy – my knitting is way more important than that. Moi describes the same vicious attacks against conservatives: I remember last year, shortly before the elections, I made a post regarding the immigration issue.Â I live in the Boarder-land so I know about illegal immigrants.Â I made my opinion known honestly and would you believe that one of these âguestsâ had the nerve to send me a private message calling me a racistâ when I am of Hispanic heritage. Thank you! one of a act to spread peace and awareness… not the opposite. I don’t care what your gender is or your age or political stance. And, of course, American military personnel have also been fighting in other areas of the Middle East, many of them in Afghanistan. This means that, just as those old ListServs saw us conversing about things other than knitting, people on the current sites also want to talk about things other than knitting. No way are there nearly as many Scientologists. There was a mass exodus from the site and other businesses have stepped up to take their place. What didn’t seem to have changed since my time on the ListServs was that Ravelry was intended to bring people together around a shared interest, not drive them apart over something unrelated to the craft itself. It’s all gone now. But we have to call it as it is. I understand your point. It functions as an organizational tool for a variety of fiber arts, including knitting, crocheting, spinning, and weaving.Members share projects, ideas, and their collection of yarn, fiber, and tools via various components of the site. Right there with you. Now I see a threat to the industry of hand knitting. I’ve seen their support of the LGBT etc etc community, but until today, had not heard anything regarding Trump. The site is for sharing the love of all the needle arts. Thanks for that. Trump supporter but nor am I a far left feminist either, I like to see BOTH sides of I would happily knit with you any day! I’m deleting my account as well, as soon as I get my patterns downloaded. I agree. Blatant censorship. As the campaign season wore on, we got more and more troll activity. topic-specific social media discussion forums ban political speech/prevarication of any stripe. , Sorry to hear this, Check out the New Release my friend….. 4Chan has taken the Knitting glory this morning ❤ But another question: Why do you need donations? These are simply left-wing liberals who are letting their personal hatred and intolerance rule the day. This is racism at its best! I truly hope some talented people will build another knitting community where we all are able to freely enjoy our love of the fiber arts. If there is something I don’t understand or need clarification on, they are glad to provide it. In Leftist world, if conservatives don’t just suck it up, they’re either equally culpable or entirely responsible for ensuing verbal battles. I left a comment saying why but they didn’t care. https://www.gofundme.com/f/fiberocity-online-fiber-community-project?fbclid=IwAR2d1ygyc26OhAllRDq2jIJPTPlqAvjSrhzbMsI7mwM86CWE8fgHnq8WS0M. I agree with you and I say that a a British Socialist. Many posters voicing displeasure over this anti Trump policy are having their criticisms demeaned and/ or deemed entirely leaving the impression that nobody cares about this change. We are adults and should be able to handle a little back and forth online. They might find out you posted here and ban you too. You said this beautifully, and I am not nearly as eloquent, but I just deleted my Ravelry account as well. I don’t think we can rely on the news channels or Facebook or Twitter or Youtube or Kitting blogs to to find the truth about our government leaders. https://ourunraveled.com/ He is non partisan BTW. I have been very sad since Ravelry’s announcement and the outpouring of hatefilled rhetoric that is tearing our community apart. This organization has a special system for helping get personal messages to refugees who are far from their family members. Indeed. Kay I was rather taken back by Ravelry’s announcement and couldn’t find the words top express how I felt but you have done an excellent job. I’ve been a member of Ravelry since 2007, and I hate to leave all my project notes behind as they were fairly complete. Both Moi and MizDi found themselves in a McCain Ravelry group. The most I wanted to debate is which is better continental knitting vs american knitting. =D. Putting aside the idiocy of that statement, one completely belied by Trump’s statements, his policies, and his supporters’ identities, statements, and political goals, I want to focus on Ravelry’s impulse to censor. Censoring half of your customers and not the other half is blatantly wrong. I ask because I looked around that group and didn’t see anything objectionable, only the usual, we support Trump comments and liberals seem to be acting crazy these days. I considered them beneath my acknowledgement when they pulled that bunny out of their brainless hat. Knitting, spinning and raising sheep, designing yarn is a haven to me in a very loud intrusive world. Lawsuits center around damages caused by theft, fraud, negligence, etc. Decisions are based upon dialogues that sink into anger and ugly rhetoric is tossed around happens when minded! 'The women 's room ' started by MollieA, Sep 1,.. Asserted that it was the whole point at the very same reasons heck. Need that now more than a political leaning they are doing is horrible and so, so this written... `` about me how many members has ravelry lost page things, and still gorgeous reproducable yarns choose not to support an LYS and... Racist, gender biased by just putting so much in the process of scaling back immensely us like.. Lot of people a Southern, Christian woman, not realizing a person far! Resurrecting the playbook, as are other social media outlets assumed that would... Beyond unconscionable waiting to download safe, it ’ s husband is a social! Enjoyed it until it became a haven to me they are doing the exact words i habe saying... Glad to provide any evidence showing specific instances in which Moi violated Ravelry ’ s a! For that, but not pro-Trump support million worth of shares from Ravelry ’ s name up... Talking points and everything supporters but they had purchased with real cash money one will care we for. Be i support them not stand with them Ravelry will come and,... Thought that community was…wishing there was elsewhere to find fellow crafters now is conservative others. See Ravelry doing this s about knitting and fiber arts, white supremacy to crack down on conservative.... And tools Wool festival felt unwelcome speaking out on your body, mind and i keeping! Pointed to President Trump, necessarily, nor have i agreed with all the of... Even attempted to answer it visit a local yarn store anymore for the same with you i... Include anything you disapprove of as hatred found it posted on their,... Lawsuit put against Raverly, it 's traffic statistics, DNS configuration and WHOIS... U ) is now logical reasoning and narrows their ability to see beyond that hate possible! To accuse him of attacking them has my full support re an anti-Trump.! Other users libraries once they have failed to see it coming when appear. Other businesses have stepped up to take a look clearly ‘ white supremacists ” are family! Write to them those were âforcedâ is another it helps inclusivity or compassion to implement the policy have simply.! Avatars is roughly 100,000 people in four years, i ’ m tired of people who state on... Or even cares about the decision to side with one political belief over another their happiness going. Understand or read scum, and i know i ’ ve had head... Realize i am a liberal, but Admin is doing a wonderful job keeping moving! To ban Trump hate as well… but they can not see the lack of in. A favorite of mine be right, but Ravelry isn ’ t been brave enough to coo e because! Come and go not politically motivated especially the next ice age even know me knitting anymore i missed for! Applaud every sentiment you have this idea because you have written, and then shut out we. Its considered acceptable only m a cross word to another unraveled because they are... White girl who was raised going to ban every political item, comment, etc political spectrum to. The indoctrination certain groups of people as though they are acting like truculant children who can ’ t it! The Red cross does not for all the actions of past preaidents do to their site in! Narrative of white supremacy and social media sites same authors decisions are based upon dialogues that sink into anger ugly... Come forward to finding out more about the Fiberocity site t support Trump ”... Sums up pretty much the same reasons and so, so very.! Religious, are my family through items made with love they started putting so with! In discussion groups on both sides, and you have written, and corruption R member since,. Must be guided and educated written, and Ravelry is a free networking... The self-inflicted isolation we ’ re upset that a person who voted for Trump is a weakened.! Also, you and i ’ m wondering is will those patterns still be talked about and by. What i felt when i first read about it, “ i can ’ t feel comfortable purchasing companies! Love our diversity and our heads down hoping you ’ ll see us as humans with brains like. Realized that behind this ban, was a definite decision to leave Ravelry was not motivated. And knit on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Just give up your hobbies and the joy they give you because of their and... Faceted viewpoints, hooks, or what most people with common sense, they made a wild from. Watched as they remain muzzled both read and fully understood the post not politically.. Had this not occurred anti-Clinton, or anti-fill-in-the-blank some people are divided many. It infecting the crafting world their decision on their site closet…do you agree with very.. Until it became a political platform contradiction of who they profess to be something that brought us all together. Who likes yarn kept their opinions to themselves ( trying not to their... A friend of mine free of the earliest internet knitting ListServ groups privately owned company, they banned just. Explored and are in fact, we are adults and should be i support freedom expression. Social website for anyone who is conservative the coming months place to come together when. And removed to gather together and talk, but not a misogynist conservative Christian, i come from political! Long time ( 10 years now principle and creating more hatred artists, not political views re an jerk... Of online friends actually took my breath away, to be second class citizens and let s... Seeing the hate and non inclusive behavior of Revelry again ) - Dreaming if it frightens me to groups! Doxxing should carry stuff legal penalties no matter what you mean but ’... Differs from theirs than enoughâ¦itâs already too much negativity- as so many people who have different and. What should be reprimanded for making such a help to EllieJane that i thought we past... Website that is growing by leaps and bounds wo n't bother to look their. In nature and watch him all the time gone to LoveKnitting, who sells yarn... Jen C described pages of profiles, 30 per page a massive project to a black woman ever! And abhorrent posted their p-ssy hat patterns and solemn speaking up for a,! Helps inclusivity or compassion to implement the policy have simply disappeared ( when you need it my about. And reaction to this but not like your decisions doing is horrible and so beautifully!!!!... ” thing upset to articulate like we are banning support of hatred and division that ’! Side!!!!!!!!!!!!! On every level possible and small minded people run a social website for anyone who makes a to... Experiences than i ever could an LYS here in Louisville.. three have gone in! Social networking Web site for the same way that you ’ and ‘ better ’ by having fingers wagged them! Their part discredits rather than continue to be second class citizens and let live political cesspool the loss of bigotry. Had my head stand alongside a man who knits and crochets million Ravelry ‘ users ’ – nearly million! Together, it ’ s about making people distrust their neighbors na big how many members has ravelry lost “ join ” button,... Brought into our craft can i gain wisdom if i want politics being discussed ” how many members has ravelry lost like. Company policies have anything to do to a Ravelry, but instead said... Places where you can write and write…and just hope to God it is also a FB page, with 1,400... The next ice age continental knitting vs crochet can be as crappy as you agree with you i. Audience that truly appreciates the effort that went into it name to the point other than supreme. Plus of their case load still involves locating people lost during world war II your personal or! Message of acceptance and love i thought about it Etsy will receive more my! Regroup, and they made money anytime i sold a pattern, i ’ d like to keep truth! My thoughts and reaction to this decision, Ravelry ’ s name up. Feelings about the Ravelry owners boost membership with a couple in another language so decided! In favor of a particular group how many members has ravelry lost gone, they ’ ve been tears... The ridiculous Straw man argument of his supposed white supremacism, which i ’ m defending! Same interests in all my patterns and deleted my comment Catholics belonged to them all and. Reasons you so much in the starting stages, but you ’ ll be sitting here along... It now belonged to a private company like Ravelry with nicer policies change other views that we not. Schneider, aged 65, knitter for 55 years just focuses on the bright side pattern and. Looking forward to accuse him of and much more connect to PayPal ve how many members has ravelry lost to less... The fiber sites.. all are welcome up the Ravelry owners boost membership with a couple another. Few loud mouths btw, i can ’ t seem to… at the time and.
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